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|  | Topic : 2013 Tbird has lost spark |  |
| | | Tbird123 | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 12 Jul 2023 - 14:16 Post title : 2013 Tbird has lost spark | | | The bike shut off completely during a day of interstate running at 85mph most of the time. Left me stranded at the side of the road with about 6 hours of riding to make it home. The bike turns over fine; all fuses are intact, but won't fire. I checked for spark and there's nothing. I have a crank sensor that reads 208 ohms so I thought I had found my problem but the new one I received has the same reading. Manual I have says it should be 560ohms. Which is correct? Has anyone had to change the cps berfore? Any help would be appreciated.
edit: forgot to mention that no fault is shown on the dash, tuneecu or dealer tool
| | Post edited by Tbird123 on 12 Jul 2023 - 15:56 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jul 2023 - 15:32 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Welcome to the forum. Let us know what you find.
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| | | Bender | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 26/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 659 | | Location | : | Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 13 Jul 2023 - 21:48 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Does it have a factory Alarm, Have you checked the Kill switch. have not heard of a Bird that would not fire up
| BENDER Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.
Thunderbird 1600, Foran exhaust,cat eliminator,Twin T Bars, K and N filter, Led Headlight, Rivco driving Lights, Viking Bags,quick release sissy Bar,.Joker oil pressure Gauge met-cruise seat Dyno Tune + more
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 13 Jul 2023 - 22:07 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Bender) | | | No alarm. The kill switch seems to work as it should. The diagram I have doesn't show any connection to the ignition. Could be the wrong the diagram; it's from the 2009 thunderbird manual. Let me know if thats wrong.
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 04:02 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Kill switch won't allow starter or fuel pump to operate. Assuming you have proper fuel pressure and you can hear pump crank up, yes?
(09 manual is same one I have...)
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 12:07 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: MotorMac) | | | yep, pump primes and fuel can be odor is detectable after a while. So frustrating. No one seems to be able to confirm what the impedance of my cps should be. Book says 560, other forums say 600, my original unit is 208 which is the same as the new unit. I think the book is wrong on that value. Local triumph shop became a dealer in 2019 and doesn't have the manuals for the bike (yeah right) and wants me to bring it in.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 16:41 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Besides measure the resistance in the sensor ( witch can be done at the connector) have you actual inspected the sensor, taken off the cover and looked at it ?
The sensor is a fairly simple device, and it works by induction, and if you can measure resistance through it, it is probably electrical okay.
I would suspect that since it happened at an instance, something happened behind the cover, sensor come loose, flywheel move down the cone, etc.
Try disconnect the CPS from the ECU, and attach it to the multi meter AC input 12V instead, crank over the engine, and see if you get a reading.
By the way, when you are measuring ohm om the sensor, that is pure ohmic resistance, not impedance. To measure Impedance it requires a special device. Impedance is easy calculated though.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
| | Post edited by Slcharger on 14 Jul 2023 - 18:24 |
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 17:53 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | The sensor has been replaced with a new unit. I am just going by what the manual tells me. It states a resistance that doesn't match what the new unit or the old unit reads which both read 208 or so ohms. I can't get a tech at triumph to verify the value I'm seeing is correct or anyone to measure the unit on a working engine. Tuneecu reads rpms when cranking so I am guessing the cps is working correctly unless it gets it's rpm reading from somewhere else. Every actuator passed the tests in Dealer tool as well as tuneecu but I don't have spark. I'm thinking maybe the coilpack signal from ecu to coilpack is damaged inside the ecu. Total guess, I really don't know.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 18:15 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | The new sensor generates 3.5vac when cranking
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 18:25 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | |
Tbird123 wrote:
The new sensor generates 3.5vac when cranking |
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So, it is not the sensor, that thing is okay.
Need to think about it.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 14 Jul 2023 - 18:56 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | This is a tiresome process, you have to check systematic all possibilities.
Lets start with the easy ones. 
Sometimes components do fail without notice, without obvious reason.
The following switches should be checked, if they are in working order / in right mode.
RED safety switch on handlebar.
Side stand switch.
Fall detection switch.
All 3 switches, can if in wrong mode or defect, cause the ECU to shut down the engine.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 17 Jul 2023 - 21:10 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | Everything passes the tests in the manual and operates as it should. Gone through them 3 times now since I got the bike home.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 17 Jul 2023 - 22:10 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Check the service manual for ECU diagnostics, pull the ECU plugs and closely inspect the pins.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 18 Jul 2023 - 13:56 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Leethal) | | | The ecu plugs look good. I'm taking the bike to a Triumph dealer. I hope it's something simple that I've missed.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Jul 2023 - 20:17 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | If it were me, at this pint i'd pull the tank and side covers and start pulling every connector i see and reseating them, possibly using some deoxit on any that look oxidized or such. Then i'd start looking for look grounds and other potential wires that look suspicious. Sounds like it's almost gotta be a open connection in one way or another after all else you have eliminated.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jul 2023 - 22:13 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | |
Tbird123 wrote:
The ecu plugs look good. I'm taking the bike to a Triumph dealer. I hope it's something simple that I've missed. |
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The ecu plugs are rarely a problem, how about the ecu pins as I mentioned?
Daz could be correct, I had two separate experiences within the 5volt sensor circuits where a pin in each plug/socket failed causing all sorts of issues.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 18 Jul 2023 - 22:44 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Leethal) | | | The ecu pins/plugs was one of the first things we looked at. Tell me more about the 5volt sensor circuits. No trouble codes popped up?
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 19 Jul 2023 - 03:10 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | I wrote a report somewhere here years ago, essentially the male pins in the sensor plugs/sockets are small flat bent over contacts, I had two fail at different times. One was the TPS and the other was the crank sensor. The pins broke on the bend (they are like a tight U shape) and the pin then has no solid contact with it's female partner, tends to move around with vibration and causes issues. Most of these are found behind the LH side cover but not all. I replaced all mine with waterproof Narva ones, no problems since. I think the TPS one did throw a fault , not that it mattered because the info that the ECU was getting made the bike run really rich on one cylinder as well as backfiring etc. This may be not your issue but they are worth checking. The CPS one did not throw a fault and the bike would turn over but not fire.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 20 Jul 2023 - 22:29 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Leethal) | | | Seeing as Triumph can't fit me in until mid August I went out for another stab at the issue.
Dealer tool/Tuneecu show no faults. I can unplug any sensor and a fault shows up. Plug sensors back in and fault disappears. No amount
of jiggling will produce a fault. Dealer tool and tuneecu sensor tests are all passed. I tried to upload the stock tune several times as well as my
custom tune with no luck. Visual inspection has not shown anything unusual. I think I'm going to order a used ecu and see if it does anything. I am also willing to send my ecu to anyone willing to plug it in to see your bike fires up with it.
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 Jul 2023 - 02:41 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | I don't suppose the old school way of checking for spark would help, would it? Screwdriver in plug wire against head?
I should think if the ECU had failed, none of your tests would work.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 21 Jul 2023 - 07:07 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | |
Tbird123 wrote:
Seeing as Triumph can't fit me in until mid August I went out for another stab at the issue.
Dealer tool/Tuneecu show no faults. I can unplug any sensor and a fault shows up. Plug sensors back in and fault disappears. No amount
of jiggling will produce a fault. Dealer tool and tuneecu sensor tests are all passed. I tried to upload the stock tune several times as well as my
custom tune with no luck. Visual inspection has not shown anything unusual. I think I'm going to order a used ecu and see if it does anything. I am also willing to send my ecu to anyone willing to plug it in to see your bike fires up with it. |
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You probably have a different fault, but as I said with the crankshaft sensor there was no fault code , the bike would crank but not fire. As with the TPS plug and socket, when I pulled them apart I had to closely inspect the male pins to find the faults, I too have a spare ECU, bought it when I had those problems. Dealer tool from memory showed all values to be correct. A few owners have had wiring loom issues as well, two that I know of have replaced the complete looms.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 22 Jul 2023 - 16:07 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Leethal) | | | I agree with Lee that this is an unusual failure.
Besides Lee's suggestions, the next thing I would check is the correct calibration of the TPS.
You can do that with your TuneEcu.
TuneEcu connected, being in TEST MODE.
Double click on Adjust ISCV, and now you should read TPS to 0.6 Volt. Adjust if necessary.
Double click on ISCV again and now the stepper motor should go full stroke to 0.75 Volt. (adjust if necessary, no feeler gauge needed, only read value on computer )
Double click on ISCV again, and the ECU will calibrate the stepper motor movement. ( will end up with something like 0.62-0.68 V )
If the Engine starts now, proceed as follows.
Reset calibration, and proceed with usual procedure for calibration from cold to fan running + 12 min.
The ECU will be testing various rpm, before settle on chosen idle rpm.
Kim
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 22 Jul 2023 - 19:47 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | Tried the reset as described. No change. Found a local shop interested in giving it a try. Going to remove tank and covers again and go through every connection again. I'm not sure if I have checked the ecu to coilpack signal wire so that will be done. I'm sure hoping we find something.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 03:31 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Now, i for sure hope for you that the workshop do find the cause, but before you bring the bike there, I would suggest one last attempt.
Even though I am sure you by the best of your ability have checked spark from the coils/spark plugs, but i would not be the first time that a very weak spark is not noted, and interpreted as no spark.
Just to make 100% sure that it is not your fuel system that it fucking with you, try inject some brake cleaner into the air filter, while turning over the engine. If the engine reacts to that, its the fuel system, if not, we are still with the ignition system.
Kim.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 18:53 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | Brake fluid didn't effect anything.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 19:30 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | Brake cleaner, not brake fluid. 
Brake cleaner is a highly flammable spray / solvent you use to de-grease brake discs.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
| | Post edited by Slcharger on 23 Jul 2023 - 19:31 |
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 19:51 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | Link
Link
There are 2 types, flameable and not flameable. Use the later one.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
| | Post edited by Slcharger on 23 Jul 2023 - 19:57 |
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 20:15 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Slcharger) | | | Sorry meant brake cleaner. Label says non flameable. CRC Brakleen
| | Post edited by Tbird123 on 23 Jul 2023 - 20:16 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Jul 2023 - 23:31 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: Tbird123) | | | You didn't quite answer my question...
When you set kill switch to run and turn on ignition, do you HEAR the fuel pump?
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| | | Tbird123 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2023 | | Posts | : | 16 | | Location | : | Canada |
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| | Posted : 26 Jul 2023 - 02:26 Post title : Re: 2013 Tbird has lost spark (Re: MotorMac) | | | Yes I can hear the pump. I took the tank off today, measured the coils and did a compression test. 160 in both holes. I'll start umplugging everything under the tank and looking at all the connectors unless someone has a better plan.
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